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How To Close Internet Leads In JUST TWO PHONE CALLS! With Chris Smith / Salesman Podcast

do you sell the leads that come in

through the internet in this new world

that we live in on this episode we're

going to show you how you can close

those leads in just two phone calls

hello salvation and welcome to today's

episode of the sales man podcast on

today's show we have Chris Smith author

of the best timing box the conversion

code which covers some of what we're

touching on today which is selling

closing on the phone internet basically

everything we talk about is available in

the show notes for this episode or its

sales man podcast calm involve our said

let's jump right in Chris welcome back

to the sales and podcast what's up man

thanks for having me your monologue so

glad to have you on we're going to dive

into a topic which I know is dear to

your heart and that is pitching and

clothes and going the phone but before

we get into the Nitty Gritty probably

get into the real the practical

takeaways for the audience with this

which hopefully will be getting engaged

with before the call build that know

like and trust and have an intelligent

conversation about phone selling versus

the usual nonsense that I see online

which is essentially bullying people to

close deals on the phone and ask you

this and that is what people doing wrong

when they pick up the phone to make a

sales call I'd hopefully try and pitch

and close what sick and one two things

that so many of the audience are

screwing up on well not picking it up

enough I think we live in a world where

people are typing more than or talking

and that's a problem you know a lot of

people have used the last five years

worth of innovation and technology to

avoid the phone not to pick it up more

so I would say that like when you have

all this data when you can stalk

somebody on Facebook when you can you

know Google whatever and when you can

use Charlie like some of the tactics

we'll talk about when you have those

available you can't just get fired up

with nowhere to go and so I think that

the most probably the worst thing people

are doing is not calling enough people

but the other thing is mindset and

having the right expectation like we in

my book I call it a black lab mindset

where what you focus on is what you find

so if you go in to everyday thinking the

leads are

they will be if you go into everyday

thinking if you stay focused you'll get

a deal you will so its enthusiasm its

tone and its effort that's what people

are screwing up right now so we'll come

back into the mindset piece because

clearly and the audience notice that's

the angle that I really like talking

about the psychology behind it all but

when you say not making enough calls I

just want to get your thoughts on this

and have a kind of clear clarification

on it are you saying that we should make

more calls that are precursors with

stalking people on Facebook online cut

the data or are you saying which is some

people live in this world of you should

not make Audrey calls a day you should

make 400 because you're using an

automated data that's just dialed out

down you've no idea who's on the other

end of the phone which way should we be

leaning in 2017 in between right you

know we certainly never have to call a

hundred people to get a couple good

conversations because our marketing is

excellent but a lot of the people

listening to your podcast they don't

have that luxury

they're getting leads they're

having to generate their own leads

they're having a cold call and so when

that's your world you don't want to do

it all day like if you were to curator

you will love calling people all day

because every third person has a copy of

my book every fourth person watches our

show every fifth person reads our blog

every sixth person comes to our webinars

so it's easy over here but that's not

the real world most people don't have a

40% conversion rate they have a point

four so I just think that focused calls

I will give you a tip when I was at

Quicken Loans in the boiler room

you know dialing and helping a

billionaire get richer one of the things

that they would talk about is reducing

it to the ridiculous so you could focus

on the hundred calls but what that

really does is leads to five

conversations and with those five

conversations lead two or three credit

polls and what those three credit pulls

leads to are two loans written and one

loan closed but what you're ultimately

after are five meaningful converse

today you notice saying so if you're the

person that doesn't like the idea of

high-volume calling just don't leave

your desk until you have five good

conversations think of it that way but

in the real world where people don't

answer their phone as often and people

don't like being followed up with with

salespeople you don't just sit there and

chat with people all day with your feet

up on the desk a lot of it is dialing to

get the conversation going now if you're

asking are most people calling leads

without the right insight without the

right Intel without the right focus and

purpose absolutely there's still that

kind of old-school like hey here's 100

leads go close them for me when

meanwhile again we can't get past five

leads without getting a deal because of

the data and the systems that we're

using to analyze who we call so I want

to touch on the insights and you use the

word purpose then so I'm intrigued is

that but I don't want to spend the rest

of the conversation on this I when I go

into a talk phone call and we can assume

some of this has been in place but what

insights at a bare minimum should we

have if we are you know if we're inside

sales if you're making phone calls

what's the bare minimum insight that we

need to then drive a purposeful

conversation I guess well that's part of

this right is the more you ask for when

you capture the lead the last leads you

gets if you want a lot of leads with

very little Intel or do you want very

few leads with a lot of Intel that's why

I like the Goldilocks zone I like to

just write his own write I like a good

volume but I don't just want a phone

number and a prayer right I want a

little data or intelligence so for us

it's about identifying like I'll give

you an example in real estate you know

you're a real estate agent you get a

lead from Zillow you get a lead from

Holmes comm you know it comes in well

the the wrong way to call that lead

would be to call it say hey this is Judy

from Remax I'm calling about the

property you found on Zillow how are you

like that doesn't sound too bad you're

introducing yourself you're saying who

you work for you're mentioning the lead

source but the more specific you are

with your opening the longer your

balls will go and conversations lead the

customers so what we do is we try to put

as many Nuggets as we can in our opening

statement

hey this is Judy calling from Remax I

saw that you found a home over on Main

Street

it's a 3-bed 2bath it's listed for two

eighty nine nine and it's been on the

market for about six months how are you

that is such a different call imagine

somebody calling me hey Chris we'd love

to work with you and curator we've got a

technology that all of your clients

would love vs hey Chris I saw that

you're traveling and you're in Boston

and you're really busy right now and it

looks like your company's growing really

fast that's all that you got featured on

entrepreneur the other day props for

that is there any way I could get five

minutes of your time next week when you

get back

who gets the sale right I'm what's going

on that Chris just to dissect that a

little bit more because that is it's

almost subtle but I can feel the

difference and I hate talking about kind

of feelings on the show I prefer data

there might be data to back some of this

up but my gut feeling is that when you

just include in over two sentences you

give more of a is that what's going

on those as simple as that

it really is that simple it basically

means that you're separating yourself

from the other cold callers because even

if you're not cold calling other people

are even if you're not calling leads you

know does it opted in you're still up

against this sales guy perception so

half of it is just like there's no way

that that would be an accident think

about all the robo calls like you said

all the dialers all the things where you

call hello then they don't pick you know

people are sick of the tricks so just

use the data you have at your fingertips

like I know one of our clients she had a

really good conversion where she knew

the street the home was on was like one

of the cutest streets in her town and

there would be no way to put that

automatically into a drip campaign or

put that into a script but you know as

soon as she said hey you know you guys

live on such a cute Street I've always

been jealous of that cold ASEC that was

what converted the lead so

nuggets like even back at Quicken this

is before social media before really big

data social selling before we had all

this you know they would at least give

us their current loan amount their

current home value their current

interest rate so that I didn't just say

hey is John available

I said hey John I'm calling about your

property over on West Avenue looks like

it's worth about six hundred you've got

a loan for about four hundred and your

interest rates about six percent did I

catch you at a bad time

right like so your that those nuggets

are exactly you said you feel a

difference absolutely and what's

interesting you're not you're not

pulling out anything there isn't

somewhat obvious in that you can do that

analysis in five minutes in four minutes

and three minutes before you pick up the

phone right we're not saying and I've

missed you kind of alluded to this at

the top of the show of we're not saying

spend an hour researching someone before

you pick up the phone and then because

they might not even answer yes yeah is

there it I mean we're your team

especially is there a kind of time limit

that you put on these kind of research

tasks or data polling tasks speed is

very critical to conversion so we're not

going to go spend an hour researching a

lead that hasn't answered the phone yet

but through databases and CRM is like

there's an app it's a web app called

Charlie app and I love it like you it

literally it plugs into your calendar

and so if you've got a call at one

o'clock with a lead and you've got their

email address it'll give you all this

information it'll show you your

connections in common it'll show you the

school they went to it'll show you their

common passions and if they were

featured recently in the press and what

they've been tweeting so I love Charlie

app because there's another cool way to

do it like if people have never done

this they should try it like google your

name and look how many results there are

and then google your email address and

look how different it is and that's what

Charlie apps doing is it's grabbing

their email it's finding all that big

data and it's bringing it to you

so yeah we can do what we call a pre

call stalk we do it on every call and we

can do it in 30 to 60 seconds because

it's a combination of what I collect on

the form plus what these tools go find

so yeah you don't want to be creepy will

you don't want to be like oh I noticed

that your wife and you had a great date

on Friday well what'd you guys do to

Applebee's like you don't want to be

creepy but yeah like what they gave you

on the lead intake form plus what's sort

of available publicly with a quick

search I call it a bullet with your lead

name on it a custom bullet well I did

this and I was ah I thought I was on the

verge of creepy but it paid off I was

chatting with one of the companies that

works the show I was getting essentially

pretty relatively far up the food chain

probably further up the food chain than

I should be out of call with them

they're just interested to see what the

show is about the progression of it the

kind of narrative that we're writing in

them into our kind of like advertising

and how we're placing them in front of

our audience there was intrigued because

they could see that we've gone from

nothing to six hundred thousand dollars

a month from the the audio side the

podcast in you know eighteen months two

years and so they wanted to pick my

brains and kind of make sure that I

wasn't full of basically that was

the conversation that we're having so I

went on Google to put their name in

nothing more sophisticated than that

there are an Instagram they've done a

bunch of traveling I think they've been

essentially on a mini sabbatical for the

past three months or so and they just

come back into the office so now we're

kind of you know nicely and it's a

compliment I was one of the first things

they wanted to look at and dive into and

so I just mentioned that and then we had

a 45 minute and this is I believe I've

not done any business in the east but I

believe this is our business still in

the east of where the 45 minute

conversation throughout this lady's

traveling the hiking and I do a little

bit of hiking and stuff around here in

the late district in the UK and we had a

conversation about walking boots that's

what we ended up talking about for a

good 45 minutes or so we talk five

minutes of business and then we kind of

wrapped up the deal that was what

essentially she passed the deal okay the

deal and passed it back down to the the

people that are sourcing out and that

was such a pleasant conversation to have

and it was I think five years ago it

would have been borderline creepy in

that she

would have had that photos that

information at data on a private

Facebook page where is now she put out

there exactly and you know it's funny

it's mine says sometimes it's

generational

sometimes it's ideological sometimes

it's still Asafa chol I don't know

but like I know that like in the past if

somebody knew that about you it would

annoy you

it would have been creepy but like for

me well like listen if you ask me what

I'm up to

I'm mad it's like check my Twitter man

check my Instagram you didn't

look at my Facebook page like like like

it bothers me when people don't know

what I'm up to you know to me like don't

text me and be like how's everything

going see what I'm saying that's a big

difference like go look at my facebook

look at my Twitter look at my Instagram

look at my LinkedIn I can guarantee you

in five minutes you'll know what I'm up

to so you don't want to start

conversation saying how's everything

been you want to start conversation

saying man I've been paying attention to

what's been going on and I'm impressed

and that's why I wanted to talk to you

got it got it okay how do we and

sometimes just happens organically but

how do we transition from this

importance essentially ribald rapport

building step how do we transfer from

that into talking about product or

service and then obviously moving into

the clothes is there a is this a switch

that we hit well I'll tell you what I do

for me is I teach it is what's called a

20 20 20 sale so that it makes it very

easy for a salesperson to go into the

first 20 minutes of the call not

thinking about that turning that corner

we literally break it up so that we

spend 20 minutes figuring out what your

problems are then we spend 20 minutes

developing a custom pitch based on what

you told us then we spend 20 minutes

pitching it and closing stead of saying

yep so that's actually why because a lot

of sales reps especially new ones

when they start a kaulder in minute 30

thinking about the credit card you know

I mean they're in minute five thinking

about the kill they're not thinking

about the courtship and so we just make

the courtship the whole first 20 then we

take a step back and we leverage the art

of war that we know we're going to win

or lose the pits before we pitch it so

we spend 20 minutes on the phone digging

deep 20 minutes developing a pitch and

helping each other like our sales guys

will sort of be like hey here's what I'm

thinking like what do you think of this

pitch here's what our situation is

here's what I'm thinking about pitching

and then we call them back like we let

them go we believe in attracting not

chasing so we actually hang up with them

okay I'm going to spend 20 minutes

because I don't want to do a pitch

that's not catered to your situation so

let me get my together call you

back and when I call you back I'm going

to ask for your business if there is

there any reason you wouldn't say yes if

everything I present makes sense so I'm

doing a pre closed well before I've ever

pitched because guess what we'll

everything makes sense before you've

heard it okay Chris so let me just get

this right in my mind because this I

think this is it shouldn't be unique but

I think it seemingly is of we got plenty

of people calling the show or learning

people trying to pitch me to come on the

show only one person is come on the show

to talk about this in it like a one call

close and the conclusion of that

conversation was that this individual

just crapped on a marketing before they

even get on the phone they've done a

prepped on a qualification through

content all kinds of cool stuff yeah how

much is their product cause well think

about sent out ten thousand dollars so

yeah they're they're going after they're

trying to shoot fish in a barrel right

they've got an isolated targeted

audience and that was the conclusion

from it because his page to come on the

show was that I can close anyone in one

phone call but then it was through going

through the layers and digging down and

get deep and it was a useful show I hope

for the audience of when you get to the

bottom it wasn't a one called clothes it

was a free month marketing campaign with

a phone call at the end of it to

essentially collect the

cash there was no selling at that point

and it so it's interested in a different

way of looking at things but I think

what you're proposing here Chris is

still really interesting and different

but from perhaps of b2b perspective

probably more useful of and then tell me

if I've got this right so you collect

data you have a phone call you are

grabbing information for 20 minutes then

you pre prequalify or pre-close have a

little bit of time come up with a decent

pitch that isn't just and kind of the

standard deck right if you hatered it's

custom it's like why is my newsfeed on

facebook custom but your sales pitch

isn't so we'll come to the pitch in a

second we'll dissect that and then we

have the pitch and then we have another

20 minute conversation to kind of wrap

things up and tie it together is that

the structure that we're talking about

here absolutely

step one establish there's a problem

step to develop a solution step three

present that solution and ask for their

business because when you say like that

and when you're staring down at me

through the camera here it's simple and

I think that's why I'm intrigued as to

this because it's so simple and I get so

excited when it simple and kind of like

processes come and get any components in

the show because seemingly everyone is

trying to sell weird techniques people

are trying to people write in books on

the seven step process to close anybody

seemingly what you're saying here is

you've got the right people coming in

the funnel and so it makes sense for

them to move along it and you're just

doing the right thing as you progress

through which again is it's almost a

no-brainer for me to say it but I feel

like I've got to point that out it's sad

but it is important and and I do think

that we complicate sales we make it

complicated the leads don't like I have

a drawing in my book that it's the

science of sales and it's it's as simple

as drawing but that's why it's so easy

to remember it's literally you know your

job is to get people more emotionally

excited than the cost during the time

you have their attention that's sales

and there are tactics well inside of

that there are techniques that we'll

cover in a minute that will cause

people to sign up the same day you talk

to them but that's a tactic that's not a

strategy okay so we've got we've

collected the data you prequalify them

or pre-close them on the phone with the

consent ins that you described before

Chris what does it look like then when

you build your presentation clearly from

the conversation so far it's bespoke but

what does it physically look like and is

this event you're emailing over

beforehand to have a couple minutes to

look through it and then you've got on

the phone and go through with them how

is that structured that that would be

the worst mistake you could make well if

you never send the deck or the order

form or the pitch before the call why

not we screen share because people then

will like I remember what I was selling

software in offices and I went to coach

some of the guys that weren't doing as

well and like you said the basics

sometimes when I went to a shadow this

guy in Alabama and before he would start

his speech he would set the order form

down at each each person's spot and I

was I was watching as about half the

room looked at the order form looked at

the price and basically dismissed the

pitch before it happened you can't

reveal the terms until you build the

value nothing's worth the cost

until the benefit has been explained

even if it's five bucks right so that

simple mistake of like like you want

them looking at you you want them

listening to you order forms don't close

people people close people and so he was

making a huge mistake because it took

their eye off the ball it caused them to

judge the product before they knew what

it was he also would stand at the back

of the room and everybody would face the

screen together

that's a lamb not a lion right a lion is

going to face you a lion is going to

stare you down like you mentioned so you

never want to give them the information

because the reason you exist is to

explain that information I wrote down

you said something similar then of the

value hunt been built yet and I was

going

my best guess ur why that didn't work

but then this also goes into the world

of social selling and all the hype and

the buzz that's around that at the

moment of all we just undiscovered into

the mindset are we just scared about

asking difficult questions and it is I

differentiate between people who are

going to have crazy success in kind of

2017 2020 2025 is that going to be the

thing that you are hired upon the fact

that you don't you don't necessarily

hide behind emails the fact that you can

have an intelligent conversation and ask

tough questions is this a skill set that

we should be we don't already have we

should be doubling down on because it's

gonna become more important over time do

you have a lot of Millennials like I

don't know the demographics of your

audience but millennial the Millennials

that work for me are petrified to speak

to people over the phone yeah my cousin

like came down to stay with me in

Orlando for a week and like we never

talked once to coordinate it and like

I'm like I'm only 37 but I'm getting old

school like she would text me and I

would call her and I know that they say

is that right it's like what a dark I'm

38 and I do this and and so this is

interesting to me in this project in

front of a time of the market as

Millennials get into buying positions

will perhaps want to be communicated in

a different way but I'm 30 and I'm so

I've got everyone knows a guy sorry I'd

say it's constantly breaking down rotary

engines like a sports car and it's at

the garage at the moment and I'm always

texting the guys at the garage

rather than ringin them and they would

rather text me in it when I do ring them

because I'm not had to reply because

clearly the busy and and when I ring a

big alarm goes off so that they can hear

it to go to the office you can tell

they're less interested on the phone as

you know them serving me as what they

are when they text me and I get you

where have a smiley face whoever over

text and a miserable bastard when I'm on

the phone with them so it's perhaps a

conversation for another time as

Millennials age up into decision-making

positions but I you know that resonates

with me that I would rather get a text

chat and solve a problem whilst doing so

here's what it is well you would rather

text until you would rather talk sure

and at that zero moment of truth as

Google calls it they've got to be

willing to pick up that phone and talk

to you like a human being

because yet the texting is a part of the

process but it's not the whole process

and so I do think that your points are

valid like there's transactional stuff

like this but what if the guy's text

would have been like it's going to cost

three times more than we thought you

would want to talk you would want to ask

why you wouldn't want to keep going by

text think about when you go to a nice

restaurant will you go to a restaurant

you enjoy the entire experience it's

literally an hour and 58 minutes of an

amazing evening with friends because you

didn't want the check yet right you're

not ready for the check but what happens

once you're ready for the check will and

it doesn't come you can undo the entire

evenings worth of joy by making the

check take two to three minutes longer

than I wished at the very very end so

that's what this is like the texting is

the dinner but like we got a we got to

charge people's cards right and for that

moment where I'm swiping and you're

signing right even real estate Zillow

blew up at Realtors are busier than ever

because while we're going to text and

we're going to DocuSign and we're going

to tweet each other or whatever the

you want to do because you're right I

want to do what you want to do I want to

make you happy but eventually we're

going to sit down at a table and find

some eventually you're I'm going to

get in your car and go look at a place

see them saying so unless you are an

e-commerce cart like when I sell books

we'll I don't have to talk to anyone you

don't have made but curator cost $1,300

a month our upsell cost three thousand

dollars a month we have a six month

commitment that requires a conversation

I bet you didn't buy that car on a text

message only did you no not at all

what's interesting here I like the

analogy of growing out from

miel in that if you ask for the check or

the bill as we obtain in UK and it

doesn't arise I'm probably not going to

tip them if it does arrive I'm probably

going to tip them just by default and

that's the the gap in value of a meal as

somewhat commoditized experience is what

makes it different and then that little

peek of you know shitty service at the

end of the conversation can drop all I

could work back down and perhaps that's

what we're doing in sales if you're

screwing up all the work the marketing

team did you're screwy tournament yeah

and and and you're absolutely right

isn't part of the beauty of a great

server a great waiter or waitress to

know when to drop that check to know

when to be there yeah yeah yeah yeah I

love it ok let's let's rain things back

miss ICANN Chris and get on to the pitch

essentially so I think you said you

would screen share route and clearly I'd

kind of baited you with this question

but you wouldn't send the document over

beforehand you'd want to screen share

and go through it with them what does

that look like when your team are going

through it and what I mean by that is do

you literally just show you screen is

your team on the video in a bottom

corner so that there's still

face-to-face contact going on as well

and how is that how is that presentation

done and how does that transition into

the clothes sure yeah I wish we could do

more of the live webcam stuff not

everybody's up for that on the leads

like our guys would do it every time but

you know sometimes the whole point of

the internet and the phone is that you

don't have to be kind of camera-ready

so we do it as often as we can believes

GoToMeeting and we share our screen and

we you know pull up a deck we have a

deck so in case the internet goes down

in case we can't do like a live demo of

the software we have slides that keep us

on track you asked earlier you know what

happens when the conversation starts

going off the rails about boots well

that's what the decks for right that's

what the frameworks for is to help us

understand that we're three slides into

12 and we've got to keep this thing

moving and keeping it keep it at the

right pace but the the first thing in

the pitch will is actually something

everybody for

is to do the first part of a pitch is

simply recapping everything that you

heard earlier in the call that went into

your pitch it's called the five yes

technique so we would share the screen

but it would be like a so before I show

you what we can do and before I show you

our solution I wanted to just make sure

earlier I was listening and writing

everything down properly so you

mentioned earlier that your primary goal

is to sell your home within the next 30

days right okay and you're looking to

move into the three to eight to eight

zip code for your next place right okay

and the most important thing in your

next home is you want a huge backyard in

a pool okay and your budget is between

four and five hundred thousand that's

right right okay great

that is actually how you start your

pitch it's called the five yes technique

it's almost back to the restaurant

analogy okay so you want a steak

medium-rare hold the salt add the butter

like when the server reads that back to

you you feel like the kitchen will get

it right but when you give a server a

complex order and they don't like say

back to you what you said to them you're

a little nervous if they'll remember

like the no mayonnaise or whatever that

kind of request may have been so we call

that the five yes technique so we

actually just want them nodding their

head yes is ultimately what do we want

the 60s but that would be how you would

start the pitch would just be a recap of

their goals

I just want to compliment you on it so

near Chris so other people have said

similar things on the show but it's

always been from a perspective of we

want to and the b2b some kind of study

that backs this up but we want them to

be saying yes and then yes and then

after five six yes if they're more

likely to say yes the next time and so

essentially you're manipulating them

through kind of it your like the way

you're communicating with the you're

framing questions at the CS answer and

so that's kind of tied into as well of

course that's a nice effect but the way

you frame that then I thought was really

intelligent of you want them to feel

secure that they've communicated with

you what they actually want and that's

that's it's the same point

or it's from a kind of a better place

almost in that I know if I was making

calls my sales manager said make them

say yes five times yeah we've got them

on the phone sleazy yeah but then you

say the same thing to make them say yes

five times so you so that they're happy

that you know that you're both on the

right track the same thing just frame to

dick well here's what this comes down to

this all just starts with intent yeah

like there's heroes and villains there's

good and evil

there's sleazeballs and ethical people

right and I've seen both versions in the

boiler room the way I talk about it in

my book is that with great power comes

great responsibility

these are not tactics if you're using

them and you work for a good companies

with a good product this solves a good

problem for the person this is a better

way to have a conversation and so I

actually think whether it's a tactic or

a trick or it's actually truly a good

way to talk to people that actually

comes from your heart not from your head

you know man

and I came from those boiler rooms where

it was yes yes yes yes yes but that's

what the conversion code is that's me

sort of applying all this old-school

sales training to a modern era you can't

just turn and burn leaves anymore you

know 20 years ago well let me tell you

what would happen if the lead would have

pissed me off on the phone I would have

told him to go off because he

wouldn't have gone on Yelp he would have

gone in a Facebook group he wouldn't

have gone on Twitter and bashed me in

front of hundreds or thousands of people

but we live in a different world so yeah

you definitely don't want to be you know

the Glengarry Glen Ross mindset in a

modern world but if you apply some of

those tactics that are proven to a

modern world that's that's how you crack

the code you know that literally is the

conversion code so the five yeses is

recapping what they said and then we

transition into our pitch and that's an

acronym will that I use called FB T and

by the way you said this before like if

we were sitting together because this is

about pitching over the phone I want to

make one note here like had I been right

down everything you were telling me if

we were belly-to-belly I wouldn't need

to do the stupid recap you would have

been watching me write that down

you see what I'm saying put over the

phone I don't see that physiology is 55

percent of how people communicate so I

don't see the head nodding I don't see

you taking the notes if I'm the lead so

that is actually part of why we do these

techniques is because we lose the visual

cue so we have to add a verbal cue if

that makes sense the pitch itself is

called feature benefit tie down a

perfect pitch over the phone is going to

be four to six FB T's so I'll give you

an example in your world well let's say

you were if you are going to pitch a

sponsor like I've seen you working with

some awesome companies I won't okay you

mentioned you mentioned who you are and

just for context you Salesforce or

HubSpot they're kind of on board at the

moment awesome

and in freaking problem areas up you

know the man seriously

but like HubSpot as an example if you

were to pitch why they should be a part

of your show like what would have been

one of the reasons they should work with

you will what would you have said the

main reason that they I not be open

honest with this for the audience

because they're like the context of it

the reason they wanted to work was for

all the live content for example was to

get the products their sales product in

front of my audience which I think they

were not struggling because the geniuses

over there but they were kind of like

not not do it they were they were

working out input the process of working

out how to get in front of that end user

sales person versus the sales leader who

seemingly are easier to get from top so

I've got them in droves we've got there

were 600,000 downloads a month of sales

professionals mainly on the top right

there that's the feature right the

feature is 600,000 people downloading

our podcast but the problem the problem

will is like people go from feature to

feature to feature to feature what is

the benefits of HubSpot that those

600,000 people listen and do they agree

that there's a benefit so feature

benefits

down would be something like hey we have

600,000 sales professionals listening to

our podcast the benefits is out of you

is as HubSpot you know how much time and

money it takes to grow an audience that

size would it be nice to start marketing

to my audience next week instead of

building your own podcast it takes two

years to gain traction that's a tie down

right so so the best salespeople they do

these little what I call little mini

closes right like if you say hey we

actually have huge distribution in I

Heart Radio you guys don't even have a

show in I Heart Radio yet the benefit is

that I heart actually has a huge engaged

audience that listens for twenty two

minutes you guys want to be an I heart -

right and so we are asking them a

question and then waiting for an answer

at the end each one of these oh yeah

this is not a rhetorical question that's

actually when it's bad when it's like

you want to grow your business right you

want to get for sale people right it

actually has to be a very natural

question like like would it help HubSpot

if six hundred thousand more people a

month we're seeing their logo does that

tie back to your goals for the year okay

cool let me go into the next thing we

can offer you so its feature benefit tie

down and just think of it as walking up

a set of stairs most people to get them

more excited than the cost you've got to

do four or five of these features

benefits and tie downs but if the person

literally says yeah we'll we'd love to

get this thing going quickly yeah will

we totally need I heart distribution

yeah will we do appreciate that your

audience trust you that's why we're on

the call like as they're agreeing with

each of these features and benefits

you're closing them that's the biggest

mistake it's not always be closing at

the end it's always be closing as you go

you know to me you don't close at the

end it's not feature feature feature

feature are we doing this you know I

mean you don't ever ask a question when

you're in charge here's what we're going

to do here's how it helps you do you

agree that that part of it helps you do

you agree

this part if it helps you this okay

great well now that you've agreed that

all these parts help you here's what

happens next that's our transition like

we're assuming to sale that's what this

is its feature benefits i down and their

answers and their excitement in those

answers allows us to know exactly when

to close so I want to conclude that

transition into the final part of this

and I'm conscious of time here Chris so

I just got one question on this and it

might be me just being overly interested

in your kind of thought process behind

all of this and I might be adding to the

problem here of trying to over

complicate it all but with these steps

are we starting off with something

that's easier for them to say yes to and

then moving up the kind of emotional

rollercoaster or do we not need to go

that deep into it we're just asking

solid questions that they're always

going to say yes to

I love the deaths where your heads that

and it's actually really smart like you

don't want your your best land mind

first right like you don't want a

crescendo with your fifth best feature

you would almost want a crescendo with

your bread and butter so yeah we we sort

of start with the more simple stuff you

know we're going to put your home on

line that's going to get it on Zillow

and here that's going to get you

exposure you want to exposure on those

sites right right okay great we're going

to get a photographer you want great

photos right or you say oh say so it's

sort of like yeah you want to build into

it the other thing is you don't want to

blow your load because sometimes you go

to your fifth tie-down which is your

best one and they still aren't quite

sold so you don't want the the feature

benefit tie down you need the most when

they're not quite sold to be your worst

one you know it's kind of like you're

think of it like I don't know how much

baseball you watch I'm not a huge

baseball fan but the team's really stack

the lineup at the front

hitters one through five are much better

than hitters six through nine but like

if you only have a good one through four

there's never anybody you like they

never score because the fifth guy never

brings them in see you want to have

really good stuff but you do want to

think of it like you're building towards

the chorus of the song you know for us a

curator

one of the biggest features and benefits

of working with our company is that we

set it all up we maintain it and we do

it for you

you know curator does it for me and so

instead of starting our pitch with hey

we're going to build the site we're

going to run the ads we're going to

write the articles we're going to send

the emails

wouldn't you rather spend your time with

people instead of more passwords that's

our big like whoo yes

okay great here's what happens next so

we end with it we don't start with it I

would say you want to start with a

powerful one but you want to end with a

more powerful one and you also want to

sandbag and save one really good one in

case they're not quite there love it so

this comes into the perhaps the art of

some of this and what we'll even if you

follow a process they'll still be some

separation in the team of the people who

really get it the emotional intelligence

of this the empathy that you have the

ability to build rapport and a bond and

yeah I love this Chris and yeah like if

you were pitching somebody moving or

selling a home you know your fifth tie

down or your fifth yes would be you know

your husband got a raise and you guys

are finally getting into your dream home

right right yeah you want to sort of

build towards emotional start with logic

even just the voice to use then of yeah

it kind of does I can I can I can see

you all baby yeah I can see you on the

phone just loads its what's interesting

is though the subtleties to all of this

that I don't even think we've touched on

like the nuances of arms probably

another show for the future

Chris and we asked you this and then put

you on record with the audience here do

you're a hard stop in like a minute or

have you got there were five minutes

just to wrap up I can wrap it I can

finish up in five minutes no problem

good stuff the audience appreciate that

Chris sales nation appreciate it okay so

we've got the five tie downs how do we

ask for the business what is that you

know the they've got warm fuzzy feelings

inside them

we know that the chomping at the bit to

say yes they're happy that genuinely

they're happy they're not they're not

feeling weird and manipulated from that

point then how do we either get their

credit card details or you know agree

for them to kind of raise

what they gonna do yes it's three final

steps which would be you have to

transition from the pitch to the clothes

right because you were pitching and so

at the end of your last pitch and they

say yeah that does make sense will you

know you're still asking to buy you're

just going to agree with these features

as soon as they've agreed and you know

it's time you're going to say okay great

well here's what happens next and then

you foreshadow what happens now that

they're moving forward if you agreed

with all these features and benefits I'm

assuming that you want to do this so I

want you to know what happens now that

you're signing up and as you foreshadow

that process you know for a realtor

we're going to call our photographer

we're going to call our stager we're

going to look at calm so we're going to

get a long sign like you're basically

just rattling off what happens now that

you're moving forward and then you use a

technique called the trial close the

trial close is basically hey based on

these next steps I have a question

would it be better for you if our

photographer came during the week or on

the weekend would it be better for you

if the appraiser came during the day or

in the early evening would it be better

for your first coaching call to happen

on Tuesday or what happened on a

Thursday so that's called a trial

question a litmus close and what happens

is if they say yes to that or they

answer that that means they're 100%

closed excuse me

the last technique would be called the

slot close right so here's what happens

next trial close they answer that and

then we say okay great and then as far

as the payment did you want to use a

credit or debit card

okay great as far as me coming to look

at the home I've got two o'clock or four

o'clock on my calendar tomorrow Oh as

far as getting started did you want to

use a personal or a business card for

your first payment so it's still two

questions it's still two answers that's

why it's called a slot close so you

transition to the club

you for shatter the next steps you ask a

non-threatening question about the

process and then based on their answer

to the trial clause you know it's time

to do the slot close if you never give

people yes-or-no questions

you rarely get no answers I love this in

that your formal in them in and non

freshening with the words I wrote down

as you've gone through that then the

thing we've all been in this scenario

will be getting on the phone and

immediately abruptly they say you know

when the best times me to come over

Monday or Tuesday and you like no not

quite there yet but when you are getting

them to agree to things as you go

through and you're almost almost basing

objections at this point as well and

when you get them to say you know it

would be good this time rather than that

time for someone who isn't you perhaps

and putting the the pressure out of the

conversation of just you two and then

narrowing them down I really like that

I've been there's real value in that and

with that Chris before he tells a little

bit about the book I've got one final

question I'll ask you before I'm gonna

ask you again and that is if you could

go back in time a speech your younger

self what be the one piece of advice

you've given help them become better at

selling sure yeah I don't want to give

the same answer that I gave last time so

I want to think about this I think that

the advice that I would give myself

would be to stick to have gotten more

focused at a younger age like like I

feel I know everything happens for a

reason I don't look back and regret I

don't really like change I don't even

really like questions like this no

offense but like I met I never got my

together until I got my girlfriend

pregnant had a baby got married like

like I waited for life's external

circumstances to get focused and but I

always had that inner focus right so if

I if I had to go back I would say you

know instead of you know waiting until

my late 20s and and and and and and and

and getting kind of forced to get my

together through mistakes I made or

through challenges I was

going through I wish I could have been

you know as motivated to provide for

three people as I was once I really had

three people so do you see never me like

she think that do you think that I'm not

sure because that's why I'm entry to of

all of this because I know there's

plenty of 19 21 22 year olds that listen

and I know I was an idiot you look back

six months and I was an idiot

never mind kind of look back I'm 30 now

looking back when I was 20 I had no clue

and I run a small business when I was

running and paid myself for universities

there's there's something there and I

was selling to do it and but I'm not

sure and because I'm interested in you

don't like the question that's why I

want to just touch on it of is it that

we have to go through trials and

tribulations you think to come out the

other side and really kind of a day the

catalyst for a lot of this a lot not

nice to have financial success but to be

emotionally wealthy I think you probably

do I mean I was around people that were

23 24 making 4,000 bucks a week that's a

lot of money when you're 23 $4,000 cash

in five business days but I think that

it's an interesting question well you're

either driven by stuff or stuff right

you're either driven by the cars and the

clothes and sort of the Tai Lopez

mindset of you know money girls cars

being the endgame or you're driven by

the garyvee mindset right which is that

the legacy is greater than the currency

you know so I feel like you don't have

enough life experience at 22 or 23

usually some people do but usually there

aren't enough external motivating forces

at that point to get you to a 10 or 15

or $20,000 a month mindset income was

the external forces that motivate people

are the jet the car the clothes and I

heard a great quote from Ben Horowitz

I'll leave your audience with this he

said you know as you grow up you think

that

the reason you want to be successful is

that you can take things out of the

world you know you can you can go get

things and bring them to you

and and once you become a millionaire or

a billionaire as he described it you

actually start becoming much more

fulfilled by what you give back to the

world but by the things that you

actually are going to try to leave with

others not the things that you are

trying to take for yourself so I'm just

not sure that you can be motivated by

more than money if you don't have a lot

of other external motivations but I can

promise everyone listening that like

happiness and financial success are not

always directly correlated ultimately we

want to make money we want to have fun

but we don't want to do it at the cost

of our work-life balance at the cost of

our health you know some of those other

intangibles so yeah I'm not big on going

back in time machines and changing

things but I do think that the best

pressure comes from inside you not from

outside of you and so if you're mostly

successful today because your sales

manager has to coach you because your

boss yells at you because you're you

know appointments that are books

appointments for you like look inside

like like if you don't have motivation

from within if you need Gary Vee or Eric

Thomas or Tony Robbins to get you fired

up every morning see if you can get

yourself fired up Chris well there's the

topic for the next conversation mate

this internal struggle a mindset you can

coach me on this and coach the audience

I appreciate that and kind of just drop

off it tell us a little bit about the

book you've and kind of like hinted

towards it very politely during the show

give us a little bit of a pitch and tell

us what we can find out more about you

and creator as well yeah the conversion

code is a best-seller Amazon bestseller

USA Today bestseller it's being

translated into a ton of different

languages audible bought the rights I

went into a studio and the audio it's

like seller be sold by Grant Cardone and

the conversion code you know almost one

into an audible every

Ingle day so the audible book is there

it's on Amazon but it's really simple

how do we capture lead using the

internet how do we turn those leads into

appointment using technology and people

and how do we turn those conversations

into closings through a lot of the

tactics that you and I just discussed so

you know I'm a big fan of you know Brian

Tracy and Zig Ziglar and Grant Cardone

and and all these sort of sales trainers

that have influenced me I just think we

live in a new world you know if you've

never actually had to call internet

leads to feed your kids it's really

tough to coach on it and I have I mean

it's too early to that's and that sounds

to be total haven't showed it to this

episode of sales and podcast calm

without grace on thank you for your time

on thank you for jumping on for another

ten minutes I really appreciate that

make the audience to as well well thank

you for joining us on the cellphone

podcast thanks

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you